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Rep. Pat Ryan was one of the first members of the House to call on President Joe Biden to step aside last year, so he’s no stranger to delivering a tough message. A West Point alum and combat veteran, Ryan, 43, won his seat in New York’s Hudson Valley in 2022, then outran Kamala Harris by double digits in his district last fall in a race Republicans contested aggressively. In an interview with TIME, Ryan discussed the Democrats’ “flawed” brand, the problem with Biden’s student loan-forgiveness program, and why the party’s affordability crisis and masculinity crisis are actually the same thing.
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This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
Why did the Democrats do so badly and what needs to change?
If I had to distill it: we lost touch with the people, particularly working-class and middle-class people, the core of America. Democrats were seen as defending the status quo, where people are getting screwed over and [under] tremendous economic pressure, and Democrats were seen as having no plan to address it. Whereas Trump was very focused on echoing back the pain people are feeling. It is a populist moment right now, because of the near-unprecedented economic inequality that’s been created for multiple decades now, my entire lifetime. And Trump has answered that populist moment with a destructive populism. The opportunity and the need for Democrats is to answer with a constructive populism, a patriotic populism.
We have to call out villains. The villains are greedy corporations. The villains are corrupt government leaders. And the heroes are the American people. That’s the part we have to focus on. A patriotic call to actually fighting for the people, rather than all these elite entities that are really a lot of the root causes why people are feeling economic pain.
So is there a core policy issue, or policy solution, that you think Democrats are not running on that they should be?
Housing affordability is the number one financial stressor for people right now, whether trying to buy a home, which is essentially impossible for anybody our age, unless you’re super rich or your parents help you. It’s just unsustainable, and neither party is talking about this.
But Kamala Harris had a really elaborate housing proposal. She was one of the first presidential candidates to ever put housing at the core of her economic plan. She gave speeches about it, and it didn’t seem to land with people. So if that’s such a winning issue, why didn’t it work for her?
She had such little time to deliver her entire message. I’m not saying they ran a perfect campaign by any means, but it was really tough in that limited time to break through. I do think we talk in policy wonk and long policy speeches. We don’t tell stories and talk to people and tell them: here’s the person responsible for why this is currently not working, or the set of people, and here’s a path forward that centers you as the hero of the story. And that never came through to me.
If you had a magic wand and were in charge of the entire Democratic Party, knowing what you know about the Trump voters and swing voters that you represent in your district, how would you remake the party?
We’ve got to be listening again. We’ve got to really hear people and what they’re dealing with, to then be able to carry that into our policy. The opportunity space is so huge because the entire Republican Party is lined up behind Trump in such a cowardly way, they’re not talking to constituents anymore. I mean, they’re getting booed at their own town halls in safe districts.
To be clear, the Democratic brand right now is deeply flawed, and anybody making a case that we need to nibble around the edges is deluding themselves. The brand is not connecting with enough people, and those numbers are dwindling. You talk to any one front-liner in our party in the House who ran in hard races and over-performed, we had to run against the core brand. That is a strategically unsustainable position, and I don’t think we’ve fully grappled with that.
How do you fix that brand?
It sounds cliche, but how would you fix another brand? You do research; you talk to people. If your customers are telling you, hey, we’re not interested, you don’t just keep pumping more dollars in your marketing budget. You go back and look at the brand.
Why did men drift so far right, and what can Democrats do to win them back?
If there’s two options and you’re only hearing from one option, you’re going to pick the one option you’re hearing from. And in many places, we just weren’t talking to and engaging with men of all demographics. I did a lot of that, whether it’s talking to cadets and military leaders at West Point, which is in my district, where we dramatically improved from two years ago. I just think a lot of it was number one, showing up, and then number two, focusing on the issues that we were hearing about, which were largely economic and affordability issues.
I think men and especially younger men take pride in providing for their family. It’s incredibly emasculating to feel that you’re working your ass off and you can’t provide for your family. And you want to know that somebody gets that and feels that and is working to improve that and empower you—not with any handouts, but empower you to have the tools to fix it.
So you think that the affordability crisis and the masculinity crisis are basically the same?
100%. I mean, 85%, 90%. I have a huge community in my district of skilled-trades workers. We’re giving handouts to people that are in college debt who need help, but it’s perceived to be at the expense of working-class people who chose not to go to college. It felt like a double whammy—you know, I’m trying to choose a career that actually will help me provide more quickly, more income to take care of my family, and you’re helping people that are going to college instead. I think that was a place where we didn’t listen and didn’t understand.
What do you think needs to change in the culture of the Democratic Party going forward?
A lot. One of my pet peeves is sports. I’m obsessed with local sports in particular. I read the local sports section every day. I follow different high-school teams. West Point is the most popular brand in our entire community. People love going to Army football games or hockey or basketball; they love what West Point stands for. I follow all the teams and go to so many games. That allows me to then connect on a non-political level.
The moment is not only populist, but it’s anti-status quo and anti-establishment and anti-elite. So we need to find ways to connect with people that are not political, like sports. I went to the Army vs. Navy football game. President Trump was there, and got a very loud round of applause, much to my frustration. And I think there were maybe two Democrats there, me and [Maryland Gov.] Wes Moore, that I saw. And there were tons of Republican elected officials.
What other cultural shifts need to happen?
To me, strong leadership has two components. You have to show you’re willing to fight for your people, and you have to show that you’re fighting because you care about them. So there’s fight and care. I think the current Democratic Party is very heavy on the care, very little on the fight. The current Republican Party under Trump is all fight. And as we’re seeing in the first few months here, like zero care—unless you’re a multi-billionaire, or someone who’s a big Trump donor or sycophant. So the opportunity is that combo of fight and care—what would be traditionally masculine and feminine—and bringing that together authentically.
What’s the best way to fight Trump this time around?
Thousands of people in my district voted for me and voted for President Trump. I’ve never pulled my punches in what I think about President Trump. I’ve called him a traitor, which I still believe that he is. Against most conventional wisdom as a front-liner, I spoke at the DNC and talked about his not being fit to be Commander-in-Chief because of the Honor Code I learned as a cadet.
At the end of the day, it’s about the people and the harm that he is doing to them and the failure to deliver on most of the things he promised to do. He’s so good at laying out bait for us to take that’s about him or other sort of divisive culture-war type issues. We have to stay ruthlessly focused on the people.
I’ve been very careful to focus on issues that I feel are broadly harmful and will be broadly understood. For example, 20 inpatient beds closed at our VA because of the Trump hiring freeze. A Social Security office in the city of Poughkeepsie closed because of the acting head resigning and all the DOGE things happening. And that’s seniors that now can’t get the help they need. Those 20 inpatient beds are for detox and mental-health crisis for veterans. We did a rally where I had a bunch of folks, a lot of veterans who I’m pretty sure probably voted for Trump, stood with me and said, ‘This is outrageous. This has to stop’ to demand that we reopen these beds.
We have to create a place where folks who see that and feel it is un-American and harmful can come, and not feel judged or condescended or lectured at. We have to make a place for patriots who still believe in the founding values of this country but might not yet be ready to be seen as a Democrat.
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